TOPIC: GROWING for a LIVING (who actually can do it ? )

K_duce wrote:

guy wrote:

wild simulated means; (without cultivation of any type, grown where wild [/b]\"could\" grow).- therefore it is detrimental to the continued survival or existance of wild ginseng, unless it is grown with a 600 ft or more buffer zone of any known wild plant, CITIES,2011.
guy

Wow IMHO everything in red is wrong on every level....unless cultivated ginseng has been genetically altered, i believe that it came from wild ginseng, so unless ginseng has some magical system of morphing into a totaly different plant common sense should tell that wonderful regulating athourity about a well known property of living things to regress back to the wild.

I just had to weigh in on this one. the part of Guys post that is in red is the definition according to CITES as Guy has indicated. I believe that the thought behind this is that IF diseased seed is introduced right in and amongst a truly wild patch that the disease may wipe out all of the plants in the area including the ones that germinate from the seed and the wild plants that were already growing in the area. Also...if ther are inferior genetic traits that those shortcomings would be passed along to future generations of plants thus endangering the future sustainablity of the species...

With all that being said I also want to add that I'm all for planting ginseng seeds. I try to keep my plantings away from any large patches of \"wild\" ginseng, but I do want to plant in areas that I know will grow ginseng. So far my planting sites are limited to areas that have only a few scattered plants and have kept close to that 600 foot buffer area from any large patches. Not that any of those patches are truly large, but not what I'd call scattered either.

I agree with the thought that seed from cultivated plants will grow just fine in the proper conditions and that future generations will \"weed out\" any inferior genetic traits and that for the most part will help to keep ginseng sustainable in th future. I also believe that ginseng roots that come from a wild sim planting of cultivated seed are virtually the same as \"wild\" roots at least if it is truly wild sim. A lot of guys are kinda tinkering with an area between wild sim and woods cultivated. If it works for them.... I guess I don't have a real problem with it my only negative thought on this would be guys spraying heavy fungicides for a number of years and then selling as wild. The negative part is if the end consumers at some point become dissatisfied with buying what they believe to be truly wild root free of toxins and end up with root that has high levels of toxin (chemicals) and in return that will negatively impact prices for wild root. As a wild sim grower this is not something that I want to happen:dry:

In my opinion, just about everyone is probably planting shade grown seed.......I'm sure their are exceptions but the ones that think they haven't have probably just been blown some
\"woods grown\" smoke.

Hillhopper

5prong, guy, hilllopper,

Yes i quoted guys post and maybe i should have adressed it in a different mannner, the qoute was from CITES so i apologize to guy if i caused any confusion,
I think that the 600ft buffer is useless do to the following facts:
1. ginseng seed have been sold in this country for over 100 years. I have never seen any factual documentation that identifies a paticular strain of ginseng as being true wild. For over 100 years people have been buying and planting ginseng seed 50 years ago farmers in the south that bought ginseng were not buying shade cloth and cultivating it, for the most part they were planting the seed in the woods on their property. Unless you are digging ginseng that is oh say 100-150 years old then you have no true way of knowing if it was planted or wild.
2. Any bird/animal that may eat a ginseng berrie from a woods-grown or even a cultivated patch and flys lets say 2 miles down the road and poops it out has just contaminated any known wild ginseng in that area.
The laws seem to be written in a way that favors only cultivated ginseng. It just seems to me that the very large cultivated ginseng farms you know the 100 to 1000 acre plantations are the only ones that benefit from having strict laws applied to the wild and wild-simulated ginseng.

I guess that i feel that the wild-simulated ginseng growers are doing more to help sustain the ginseng and that is causing issues for the cultivated growers. They want to sell their cultivated root that may be full of toxins and if they can eliminate any competetion then that improves their bottom-line.

The 600ft buffer should have been put in place a couple hundred years ago, it would have made a difference then (maybe),
K-duce

I can't say what the thought behind the Canadian laws are or are not. I doubt they are brought about with the desire of the commercial growers, however. But, when you get politicians involved, who can say for sure.

I understand that different patches of ginseng can be identified genetically. So, technically, there is a scientific method to tell a strain derived from cultivated apart from truly wild. But, like K_duce said, how do you really know that 100 year old patch is REALLY wild?? hmmmmm.... Were do we draw this line...more importantly, where do was WANT to draw it?

What about the posibility of a hybrid of the two strains being better than either original strain? How can you keep a bee, a bird, or a deer from depositing pollin or seed where it shouldn't be according to a written law?

Let me ask you this, what if a bird does plant a seed from a commercial garden? Then what? Does that seed now magically produce a truly wild plant? If it does, then tell me why planting with human hands makes a plant any less wild?

K-duce, BCastle -- I don't disagree with either of you on your assessment of what is truly wild ginseng. That's why I had the word wild in parentheses. If by definition the planting of a berry makes it wild simulated then I would say at least 95% would fall under that category. I sorta agree with the 600 ft buffer to some degree...
Let me explain: If I have an area that has really good growth of \"wild\" ginseng that has several hundred plants of harvestable size Then I believe that the introduction of disease is a legitamate concern. Why would I risk introducing disease to a stand of plants that to this point have been thriving? I honestly believe that seeds from mass growings are likely to have a few seeds that have been exposed to one or more diseases. A thinly spaced plot probably wouldn't have much problems, but in more densely planted areas these potential problems could cause real problems.... I guess my reasons are for my own selfish interest, but that's how I see it.
I don't know if 600 ft is needed, but I believe that if introduction of disease is a concern then common sense would indicate that it would be more than 20 feet.
But like I said in the above post: I definately want to plant in areas that I am sure ginseng can survive and My plantings have been within 600 ft of an individual ginseng plant or 3 or 4. I've just kept them away from those patches of 5 or 20 or 30 plants. Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not trying to tell anyone where to plant and where not to. Just sharing my thoughts and what I've done.

I'm not an attorny, and am not offering this as legal advice, but the way I understand this it is simply a definition as offered from CITES and the 600 foot buffer is just a suggestion from the commision for the survival and sustainability of the species. I don't believe that it is an enforceable law unless an individual state has it written into their laws.

5prong,
hey i agree, i guess those laws are created for people that lack common sense, i moved all of my well lets just call it \"naturally occuring\" ginseng out of the area that i planted just for those very reasons.

After talking to many seed suppliers and reading between the lines, I truly believe the seed suppliers are buying from large seed brokers selling whatever seed they can get a hold of.
So that so called Wild simulated or so called woods cultivated is in many cased Field cultivated shade grown seed. This seed is being bought in bulk for $30 to $50 dollar per pound and being sold for 3 to 4 time the discounted price they buy it for.

It's big business fellas with big profits and no one manages what is being done.

So that $140 seed that is being sold probably cost a lot less to the seller.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Latt

Im glad to be out of that rat-race...it was a good feeling to plant some of my own seed for a change this year.....

You got it Latt. Don't get me wrong, in years to come, I'm sure ill sell seed from my patches if I don't use them but if I'm bringing in large profits from patches dug...... I'm puttin them seed back in the ground as long as I have the land and resources to manage it. I know at some point of growth if all went well you would reach a quantity of seed that is too large to plant and only a few people come to mind that can do that but they still handle shade grown seed themselves.

Hillhopper