TOPIC: GROWING for a LIVING (who actually can do it ? )

Most on here are like me, we do not buy and re-sell seed. I have bought seed from many seed suppliers to plant myself. I find the majority of the seed suppliers to be very helpful and I do not want this tread to go in the wrong direction. 90% of what I have bought I paid the higher price in order to get the Wild Simulated seed or Woods Grown Seed. However I have bought some Field Grown Shade Cultivated seed too. I have kept it separate from my other seed beds. I have also kept all of my seed separated from any wild plants. However, I know many are planting seed in areas with wild plants and I am OK with them planting seed on proven land that ginseng grows well on.

I do not think anyone on this forum is out to mislead or misrepresent themselves or their product.

Many experts believe the \"Presumably Wild Ginseng\" growing in our woods today are offspring of once planted seed from our ancestors in the late 1800's and early 1900's.
Most of that seed purchased back then came from Field Grown Shade Cultivated seed stock.

So even thou their may be some true wild ginseng out there, much of the \"Presumably Wild\" ginseng we hunt today is not derived from wild seed stock.

Here is the magic question that I cannot answer fellas. What constitutes \"Wild Ginseng\"? If a seed is grown in the wild under wild conditions and then harvested and sold as wild, is it wild? There are many officials and experts trying to answer this question and they cannot agree on it.

I do not think I am misleading anyone when I go to sell my wild roots that I find in the woods. Are they from wild seed, or perhaps 2nd, 3rd, 4th or more generation plants from cultivated seed planted many years ago? I do not know and apparently the local ginseng buyers do not know and cannot tell a difference. Apparently the buyers over in Asia are still buying what we are digging in the wild so apparently they like our roots wherever they have derived from.

I for one am glad many of us are planting and growing ginseng. I for one think growing ginseng will assist in helping to relieve the pressure off \"Presumably Wild\" ginseng growing in our forest. Oh sure some will say are you nuts, the more that grow it the higher the supply and the price will fall.

All I have to say is it has been dug to the point it is on the endangered species list in some states. It may be close in other states. So growing ginseng is a way to help keep ginseng going regardless of which side of the fence one stands pertaining to where seed comes from or where \"Presumably Wild\" ginseng comes from.
Latt

I sure hope you all decide soon whether lying to a customers face about your products authenticity is a benefit to your business or not.!

Guy, I agree with some things you say but not others. With some other things, I agree with what you say, but not your opinions based thereon.

I think one of the issues we all have is defining what is what.

\"Cultivated\" or \"Woods Cultivated\" to me is ginseng grown under shade -either artificial OR natural- where one uses common cultivational practices and fertilizers. Often this ginseng is harvested at four years of age, but occasionally 5 or 6 years.

\"Woods Grown\" is ginseng planted and grown under natural shade with some common cultivational practices such as tilling and shaping beds, weeding, sprays if necessary, calcium and phosphorous may be added, but NO fertilizer to enhance growth.

\"Wild Simulated\" is ginseng planted and grown under natural shade in natural ground. Seed must be planted 'no-til' that is making a hole and placing a seed or rootlet, or raking back leaves and broadcasting seed. But, after planting, the ginseng is left to fend for itself naturally for a minimum of seven years and preferred ten years or long before harvest for market. I think the addition of calcium and phosphporus would be ok here as long as it is top dressed only and not incorporated, as this is naturally occurring in most soils.

Personally, I plant 'woods grown' and 'wild sim' both. I do not sell the wild sim plants as rootlets, as wild sim in this state is considered by law to be 'wild' and falls under the harvest guidlines for wild. My 'woods grown' roots are only sprayed if necessary, and usually only for the first year or so to keep them alive to sell as rootstock. After that, they are normally left to their own devices and I must say, at three years, I cannot tell them apart from 'wild' roots. They look and taste the same to me. If someone were to plant these 'woods grown' rootlets and leave them, they would be for all the world 'wild' except for their method of origin.

This is my suggestion that we all agree on a set of definitions so we are not miss speaking referring to woods grown or woods cultivated interchangably.

Guy, I think our fundamental difference is the age old question of nurture vs nature. I suggest that if any ginseng seed is planted and then grows as wild, it is wild. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that if a seed originally comes from a cultivated strain, no matter how it is planted or grows, it will always be cultivated. Is that correct?

If it is, then I would have to honestly ask you where the cultivated strains of ginseng originated.

I think this discussion is a good thing. We need to express our ideas and sort them out. Anyone want to alter those definitions? Add your own?

BCastle and Guy

Here is a post I started back a year ago.

Wild or Wild-Simulated

Check it out.

www.wildgrown.com/index.php/Ginseng-Foru...-Simulated.html#6919

classicfur

classicfur wrote:

BCastle and Guy

Here is a post I started back a year ago.

Wild or Wild-Simulated

Check it out.

www.wildgrown.com/index.php/Ginseng-Foru...-Simulated.html#6919

classicfur

Interesting thread. It sort of got more into methods of planting rather than which is and which isnt wild. I have started a new thread for the definitions and that whole discusson to free this thread of further stray from the original discusson.

Latt
you got it.
We have about five acres of wild and it is an effort to get 10 pounds out of it each year. Every living thing it seems eats the berries before it's ripe.

guy

Just from my general knowledge of biology... a few generations of cultivation probably won't affect the genetic makeup of the seeds, unless the planter is isolating specific characteristics and trying to enhance them. In other words, if you buy shade raised seed and toss it out in the woods, you'll probably get skinny wild roots.

As for making a living at seng... it's a persnickety plant, and you're at the mercy of the weather. One bad year, and your crop could be toast, or seriously damaged. The multiyear nature of raising seng leaves open multiple years when a drought or a late freeze could really hammer you.

Doing it full time? Doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you have a huge crop. If you're wild planting it in suitable hillsides like I am, it doesn't need a lot of attention other than seed planting in the fall, some leaf raking in the spring.

johno, what do you do for raking in spring?

This \"buffer zone as suggested by CITES\" reminds me a lot of the closure of all the caves in the midwest due to White Nose Syndrome, bat disease.
If you aren't familiar....
WNS started in the Eastern part of the U.S. it kills bats and bats do important things for us, so we need to save them. DNR's in lots of states took a stance of \"it might be spread by humans, so let's close all caves to humans\". They did this despite absolutely NO facts to support this decision. In fact there were studies that even showed human presence made NO difference in transfer rates. But the caves were still closed.

K_duce wrote:

5prong, guy, hilllopper,

Yes i quoted guys post and maybe i should have adressed it in a different mannner, the qoute was from CITES so i apologize to guy if i caused any confusion,
I think that the 600ft buffer is useless do to the following facts:
1. ginseng seed have been sold in this country for over 100 years. I have never seen any factual documentation that identifies a paticular strain of ginseng as being true wild. For over 100 years people have been buying and planting ginseng seed 50 years ago farmers in the south that bought ginseng were not buying shade cloth and cultivating it, for the most part they were planting the seed in the woods on their property. Unless you are digging ginseng that is oh say 100-150 years old then you have no true way of knowing if it was planted or wild.
2. Any bird/animal that may eat a ginseng berrie from a woods-grown or even a cultivated patch and flys lets say 2 miles down the road and poops it out has just contaminated any known wild ginseng in that area.
The laws seem to be written in a way that favors only cultivated ginseng. It just seems to me that the very large cultivated ginseng farms you know the 100 to 1000 acre plantations are the only ones that benefit from having strict laws applied to the wild and wild-simulated ginseng.

I guess that i feel that the wild-simulated ginseng growers are doing more to help sustain the ginseng and that is causing issues for the cultivated growers. They want to sell their cultivated root that may be full of toxins and if they can eliminate any competetion then that improves their bottom-line.

The 600ft buffer should have been put in place a couple hundred years ago, it would have made a difference then (maybe),
K-duce

the best place to order seed are from glacial gold seed and rootlets out of Michigan...he and his wife are very good honest people. price is a little higher but his quality seed CAN NOT BE BEAT!! I always get a germination of at least 90% every yr. I retired at 40 yrs old due to my grandfather teaching me how to grow wild simulated on only 5 acres of land. in all those yrs. I averaged 125,000 which is actually a heavy loss due to poacher 4 times, alterneria blight that my Bordeaux just couldn't help. then you have your moles voles mice slugs as babies ect ect. you def. want to buy the books mention that the fellows are mentioning as they would prove most beneficial to you. it is a ton of work but well worth it if you know what your doing. back in the 80s I had my very best luck by narrowing thing down to just 1 and a half acres averaging 57,000 every 5 to 6 yrs. concentrating on 1 acre I have found that you can better steward your shang and monitor any problems immediately...that's the best way to go in my opinion. I have a degree in agriculture and botany and have came up with a phenomenal means of proper growth with minimal problems. once I discovered this technique it eliminating any possibility of catching the blight therefore eliminating the non use of a Bordeaux mixture, which is something I personally always want to avoid and invented a great technique to keep out the moles voles and critters from harvesting my root for me...if you ever need any pertinent valuable info on growing wild simulated please let me know...my invention is being patented now...its all up hill after MANY yrs of trial and error...start off small scale quarter acre that way you can monitor it well...that is the key...good luck in your venture:)

I will have to chime in on that one. To this day those two still owe me money for a shipment of roots I sold to them. Im not talking about 10 or 20 dollars either,way more. After they got what they wanted they completely ignored any phone calls or emails and I have never heard from them again. Also, another member here which is a good friend of mine ordered seed from them and about a pound of the order was sand when he received the shipment. Did they make it right? Sure, with a bunch of floating,diseased seed that didn't germinate. To say the least, they have no business ethics whatsoever in my opinion. I personally, wouldn't order a cup of coffee from those two.

Hillhopper