TOPIC: last years poor seed germination in the spring

Hugh, in all honesty the more I look into this and research it, it means almost nothing. I did a fairly in depth section for the 2nd edition of my book (which I hope to have ready by the first), and I'm more convinced than ever that it takes several things to happen, and then the conditions need to be just right during a definate window of opportunity for the average ginseng seed to germinate. If the primary dormancy breaks, and the conditions are still not correct (too dry for prime example) they go into a secondary dormancy and wait for next year.

Is that oak leaves I see? Oak leaves suffocate the germinating seeds. This one is in a spot not covered by the leaves. Stay away from areas where oak trees grow.

guy

BCastle- \"the more I look into this and research it, it means almost nothing.\"

Not trying to be contrary, or as it is said here in the deep south, \"Ornery\"... however if I spend money on seed purchases, put time in plantings/preparing beds, and other associated costs.... I sure want to see a whole bunch of 3-leafers the following spring!!!!!! Just my opinion. I'm not speaking for anyone else... however I'm just not into delayed gratification that much. However I think there are others on the forum that may share a similar point of view; hence this post about last years poor seed germination in the spring.

We are ALL that way!

I guess a better way of saying this is that even if the producer/dealer does EVERYthing just right, it still doesn't guarantee that the vast majority of the seed will come up that next spring, as it may also require certain conditions the fall of planting, that final winter, and then the spring they are otherwise ready to come up.

I have some evidence which suggests that if the winter or spring is too dry, the seed remain viable, but just won't germinate in ths spring. This would be an example of a condition outside the control of the dealer or the grower. So I guess what I'm really saying is that if the seed doesn't come up, it doesn't automatically mean someone sold you bad seed or seed that had not been stratified. (it doesn't necessarily rule out those things either, btw)

After reading all this about delayed germination it makes me think I should look into buying some green seed now and then. There was a successful ginseng farmer in Maryland (Not Hardings) that planted only green seed. He told me he got great germination.

I think if one is trying to watch their seed expense and was willing to spend the time sourcing some green seed at a great price it may make sense.

I spoke with a fella last year that was willing to sell me green seed for $40 per pound and I could have bought up to 100 to 200 lbs. So if I was wanting to go big I could have planted 100 lbs of seed for $4,000. That would be over 600,000 seeds planted for $4,000.

Whether or not we had all purchased some green seed being sold as stratified, or if we stored it improperly or if mother nature made our seed go dormant for a second year, many are saying they are seeing more seed come up this year than last year.

I for one would not hesitate in buying some green seed if it was being sold as green seed at the right price. Lets face it 600,000 for green seeds at $4,000 sounds pretty good verses 600,000 at $10,000 or more for stratified seed.

Just one more thing to consider.

Latt

Latt- In March, I emailed Hardings and asked them what their green seed prices were, and there was no difference in price! Curious, eh?

The same thoughts about green seed [known, sold as] have occurred to me. I have pretty much decided that I don't want to go that way, as I'm taking all the risk, all the time ahead can contribute to too many individual factors. I guess what I mean to say is how would I know which probelm I ran into if I had poor germination - two years later. Maybe I fret too much, or am too anal [no smelly jokes here please][ha!] about understanding the \"stuff\" about my endeavor.

However, and this is the cheapskate in me speaking, if the price was right... hmm...

I would have been hesitant in the past to consider buying green seed. I would have worried about it laying on the ground for 2 years before it germinated. Drought and pesky animals would definitely be a potential problem. But many of the fellas on here have experienced drought last year and have had new seedling come up from seed planted 2 years ago.

The fella from Maryland (Not Harding) sure thought green seed worked just fine for him.

If I try it I can assure you it would be a pound first as a test.

I guess if it all worked out the question is would it be worth the savings verses having to wait for 2 years for it to come up verses 1 year for stratified to come up.
Latt

For what its worth, I had one year where I put 10 pounds of green seed in a stratification box and took out over 11 pounds the following year. I think almost every one of them were grinning. Then again, I've had years where I put 10 pounds in the box and only took out 4 pounds in the fall.

Further, green or stratified is the same price in my circles. This is exactly why I stopped tinkering with green seed (other than the stuff I grow myself) is like Whitjr said, I'm taking all the risk and there pay off is not any better.

BCastle wrote:

We are ALL that way!

I guess a better way of saying this is that even if the producer/dealer does EVERYthing just right, it still doesn't guarantee that the vast majority of the seed will come up that next spring, as it may also require certain conditions the fall of planting, that final winter, and then the spring they are otherwise ready to come up.

I have some evidence which suggests that if the winter or spring is too dry, the seed remain viable, but just won't germinate in ths spring. This would be an example of a condition outside the control of the dealer or the grower. So I guess what I'm really saying is that if the seed doesn't come up, it doesn't automatically mean someone sold you bad seed or seed that had not been stratified. (it doesn't necessarily rule out those things either, btw)

I have to agree with what Brad is saying here. Specifically the part about getting delayed emergence even with properly stratified seed. I have personally planted and monitered green seed from wild plants and have seen them lay dormant until the 3rd spring after they were planted. I've also seen a few come up the first spring. I don't offer any explanations to how or why it occurs, but just offer the fact that I have personally witnessed these things happen.

That 2nd spring thing is just an average and is what the majority of seeds do, even in nature.

The first year that I planted any quantity, a 1/2lb, the next spring only half came up. I dug around for days that summer looking for answers and the only thing I found were seed that had dried out. They had a lite brown seed inside the shell not the white healthy seed. I blamed everything except my self. Next season they all sprouted.
After learning from planting and studying many sites over the years, I think the first years issues were from not planting deep enough for those peticular conditions at that site. Half the seed dried out through the winter and by next year they were covered with enough soil and leaves to sprout next spring.
Plant 1/2 inch is what everyone says eh, your conditions are more than likley different than theirs are. This half inch is for field cultivated conditions. You need to asses your planting conditions through the winter, spring and fall before you spend your hard earned money and listen to someone else.

Also another change over the last few years to look at is the way seed is stratified. In Canada field producers use large refrigerators where the tempeture and humidity are kept at a constant through the stratification process, right Brad?

Guy