TOPIC: Planting ginseng seed

Jacquo,
That seems like a bunch of work! Have you tried using a tiller yet. I planted 5 pounds of seed and it took from 9:30 am to 2:00 PM. I made 5 rows 10 foot wide by 160 foot long and put 1 lb of seed per row. While I was raking the leaves my buddy was tilling at a depth of 2 inches only. Any deeper would make the roots look like cultivated ginseng. So since we had two people from 9:30 AM to 2:00 PM it was a total of 9 hours to rake, till, sow, scratch the seed in with a garden rake and recover with leaves.
Not bad for planting 5 lbs.
Like TNHunter said when I posted info like this before a 12 foot wide row by 160 foot long with a 2 foot wide walk down the middle is better than one 10 foot row by 160 feet. This way you get more airflow and can reach out to get the berries and may also help contain any disease and prevent it from spreading.
I am convinced a rototiller is a good call for breaking up the first inch to two inches of soil if you can get one in the woods.
35,000 seeds planted in 9 hours. Now that's something that I wish I could do everyday.

Well I went to one of my ginseng planting sites today when I was out Oyster mushroom hunting and I did find a few oysters. I dug a 2 foot by 2 foot area to see how many 1 year old ginseng roots I could find. I found 8 in this 4 square foot area. Problem is I planted 4 seeds per square foot. So I could have gotten up to 16 roots in that 4 foot area. Since I only found 8 I only got 50% germination (Did that without a calculator too, lol). I planted it carefully I thought too. Last November I raked the leaves back and then scratched the soil up good. Then I broadcasted the seed, raked it in and then recovered it with the leaves. This was not one of my best spots that I had planted but I was hoping for 80% or better. I found many seeds that did not open up and I really thought I did a great job at working the seed down into the soil with the garden rake when I planted it last November. I am convinced now more than ever a tiller is the only way to go. Get the surface of the soil broken up at about 1 to 2 inches deep only. Then broadcast the seed and really work them into the soil. I am convinced that the ones that I got worked into the soil 1/4 inch deep made it and the ones that didn't died. Some of the seed was still laying on top and was unopened and when I cracked the ones open that did not germinate the inside was hollow or brown and dead. With a tiller I bet I can get the seed 1/2 to 1 inch deep. I planted with a tiller this year and I am sure I will get better results. Its the only way for me from here on out. This is a picture below showing the tiny 1 year old roots I dug today. I put them in my ginseng seed bed when I got home.
Thanks,
Latt

Hey Latt,

In Scotts book he recommends planting 4-5 seeds per sq foot and says to expect 1-2 mature plants per sq foot at harvest time.

So he is expecting 50% or less to make it.

In that method he does nothing but rake the leaves back with a leaf rake, then scratch the soil surface with a leaf rake, then drop the seeds at 4-5 per sq foot, then cover with leaves again.

He does not rake them in with a garden rake or anything like that, just drops them on top the soil then covers back with leaves.

No diging, no tilling, no furrows, no extra work.

And ending up with 1-2 mature plants per sq foot.

Now he did say not to expect that unless you were planting in good sites.

He does suggest making your plots 5x50 for a total of 250 sq foot and at 4-5 seeds per sq foot that would take around 1000-1250 seeds to plant.

PS - we had rain in the forcast this week and did get a good all night rain and I ordered another half-pound of seed and it arrived today.

I have Thurs/Friday off work for Thanksgiving and will be out there raking, scattering - early in the morning to get that half pound planted.

Did you see the post I did where I showed my modified method (small tweak from scotts rake method) ?

I first raked the leaves to one side, then the leaf compost and dirt to the other side, scattered the seeds, gypsum/bonemeal, then raked that dirt & leaf compost back on, then the leaves.

Used nothing but a leaf rake and that worked real nice.

The seeds are dropped on top of soft soil, then soft soil and leaf compost raked back on, then leaves. Then I walk the bed to press all of that down.

I have pictures if you want I can post those again.

TNhunter

TNhunter
I saw your pics of the modified beds. Pretty cool!!
We used a tiller on each bed. We planted 5 beds at 1600 square foot per bed and the tiller did not add that much more time to the process as we only tilled 2 inches deep.
I like your technique for smaller beds. Larger planting beds would work too if you could haul enough bags of soil in to top dress.
Thanks,
Latt

Thanks,
Latt

Latt

The last Four years I have had 80-90% germination with planting the seeds only a 1/4-1/2\" deep. Tilling the soil more tha 1\" is not necessary to get good germination.

You said:

\"I am convinced that the ones that I got worked into the soil 1/4 inch deep made it and the ones that didn't died. Some of the seed was still laying on top and was unopened and when I cracked the ones open that did not germinate the inside was hollow or brown and dead.\"

The secret is to get the seeds into the soil not just lying on top of the soil. I have found that after broadcasting the seeds and walking over the area with my boots, there are still some seeds lying on top of the soil. I go back and look for any seeds that are on top and poke them into the soil with my finger. It's time consuming, but I get 80-90% germination. If I did not do this I believe I would have closer to 50-60% germination.

It's not about how fast you can plant seeds, but success is measured in the results in the spring when they are up and growing.

TNhunters idea of covering the seeds lightly with the soil debri is an excellent method to make sure seeds are not left on top of the soil.

classicfur

Classicfur,
Exactly, getting the seed i/4 to 1/2 inch below the soil is what needs to be done and that's my point. Weather you poke them in with you finger or rake soil over them like TNhunter is doing is accomplishing that, its just different techniques. Tilling the soil to loosen the top 1 to 2 inches of soil is easy and effective when planting multiple pounds and is still going to give the seeds a chance to grow like Wild simulated verses woods cultivated which is planted in loosened mounded soil that is 6 to 12 inches deep and less valuable. When you rake the seeds in on the lightly tilled beds the seeds fall down into the soil 1/4 to 1/2 inch and the seeds virtually disappear. You said you get 80-90% germination and if you didn't push the seeds in with your finger that was laying on top it would only be 50-60% germination and I agree. That's a difference of up to 30%. 30% of 7,000 seeds per pound is = to 2,100 seeds to push in with your finger per lb. That's a lot of pushing per pound. I am thinking the next time I plant I am going to till 1 to 2 inches deep and then rake the soil back to the edge of the planting beds so I have extra soil to rake back over the beds like TNhunter had done on his post showing the soil mounded up at the edge. I can then rake 1/2 inch of soil back over the broadcasted seed. I have dug WILD root that I could pull out with my fingers that was perfect and the loose loamy soil was over 6 inches deep naturally. I do not think tiling the surface 1 or 2 inches will alter the roots value and it will look like wild simulated. Any method at getting the seed into the ground 1/2 to 1 inch is the smart thing to do.

Latt

The proof is in the pudding.

All i'm saying is that, to not take the time and plant the seeds in a way that will produce a good germination is a waste of time and seed.

By the way I have three kids that poke the seeds into the ground. It goes pretty quick that way. And it works well!

classicfur

Latt & Classicfur,

I am up early, waiting on daylight.

I got to get out there and get 1/2 lb of seed planted this morning and be back home in time for a Thanksgiving dinner

One thing I wanted to mention.

Scotts seeding rate of 4-5 per sq ft.

Doing nothing but raking back the leaves, then lightly raking the soil surface with a leaf rake, then raking the leaves back on, he was saying you should end up with the ideal plant spacing at maturity (1-2 per sq ft).

Anything we do extra, like extra cultivation, covering those seeds better, raking them in good to get them under the dirt, raking dirt back on top, we should probably consider reducing our seeding rate.

Anything you do like that should increase the germination rate and long term survival rate ( I would think ).

Instead of dropping them at 4-5 per sq ft, if we are going to go to the extra effort to see that they get planted better than Scott was, perhaps we should reduce our seeding rate to more like 2-3 per sq ft ?

What do you guys think ?

Classicfur - what seeding rate have you been using (seeds per sq ft), and at your 80% germination rate, what have you ended up with (plants per sq ft) after say 2-3-4 years ?

Thanks

TNhunter

latt

Here's a note on tilling from Sott's book:

\"...potential drawbacks to this method also need to be considered: tilling produces early nitrogen availability, which encourages the growth of competing shallow tree roots and weeds; dormant weed seeds will be helped to germinate as well as the ginseng; by more drastically altering the natural state of the forest floor, the risk of disease is probably increased (this is speculation based on a few observations - there is no research); and if discing is too deep the roots grow too big to fast, then they may not grade as wild or they may have to risk extra years of growing in order to sell as wild.\"

\"Of course, if the time and cost of labor are not a primary consideration, each seed can be individually hand poked into the ground, which should result in excellent germination. I know of parents and kids who do it this way as a family project.\"

classicfur

TNhunter and Classicfur,
I am up early too just waiting on everyone to wake up. I wish I had seed to plant today as we are going to my Mom's house today for Thanksgiving and I have many ginseng beds planted there with much more room to plant. I am not getting more seed delivered until the middle of next week. I bet you will really enjoy being out in the woods today TN. I am going to go do some Oyster Mushroom hunting just to get out and about.
I agree with what both of you have said. I just felt like I wasted some money when I saw those seeds laying on top dead and even more upset that they didn't have a chance to sprout up and grow. No matter how we get them into the ground I feel it should be done to get germination in the 80% or above ratio. I like your idea TN of reducing the amount of seed per square foot if we are going to take the extra steps to get the seed in the ground with higher germination. I have always hit the woods with a leaf rake and a garden rake and have had good success but always felt the seedlings came up thinner than I planted or what I wanted. All of the techniques that you two fellas mentioned are great and I think each situation has its own merit depending on the lay if the land and the distance into the woods the planting beds are going to be. I know I cannot get a tiller down steep hillsides and deep into the woods. I am going to be investing in the hand held cultivator that Classicfur had sent information on to me and then implement your modified method TN when I plant deep in the woods. I think I may reduce the spacing to 3 seeds per square foot too.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Latt