TOPIC: Looking for prices in kentucky

if a buyer buys poor quality sain that is not the diggers fault, the blame cant be placed on him. the blame should be placed on the one who buys poor quality, if they wouldnt buy it people wouldnt waste their time by digging poor quality. as with any trade there will always be an excuse that keeps prices down especially for the low man that does all the work. but on the other hand middle men take chances too usually the more costly chances. now as to the quality being different from state to state that is a load of bs. i could lay out sain from the same mountain and each piece is a tad bit different but if i layed sain out from different states nobody could tell me which state it came from. southern sain does have a bit longer season usually and hence forth more berry production so more sain but it looks smells tastes and is the same as vermont sain there just seems to be more of it. but there is no need in any of us talking bad about each other it is what it is and will be what it will be. by the way hope everybody had a great thanksgiving, i think i ate a bit too much, lol

Great post fellas!!!
I have always said the local dealer is taking huge risk for small profits. If the market moves the wrong way the local dealer can end up taking a total loss. The local dealer is probably the one taking the biggest risk in the entire process.

Weather or not I sell a pound for $450 or $600 per pound, I know what I am getting the day I sell it. If I am happy with what I sold it for the day I sold it, I do not worry if the price goes up or down. On the other hand if I do not like the price then I do not have to sell my ginseng.

Now the local buyer on the other hand can lose up to $50 bucks or make up to $50 bucks per pound typically. Making 10% is not all that much when you factor in all the expenses and all the risk taken.

If a local buyer buys 300 lbs and pays $500 per pound and he sells it for $550 per pound that's OK in my book. To put out $150,000 to hopefully make $15,000 in a market that fluctuates daily is risky business. 10% profit is a fairly small margin in most business models.

I still say it is unfortunate the Digger has to settle for less than they want. But price is market driven. Just like corn, some farmers sell at $4.00 per bushel and it may go to $6.00 per bushel the following month. Some sell enough corn at $4.00 per bushel to cover expenses and hold on to some to sell at a higher price in an effort to \"play the market\" with hopes of making more profit. But they can get burnt if the market goes the other way.

Talk to a couple different farmers sometime and get their take on the corn market. Typically their opinions on what the market will do is often as different as night and day even thou they read the same futures and yield forecast reports and know the weather conditions for the states that drive corn prices.

So I would suspect that the same differences in opinion as to what the Ginseng market is going to do may take place between all involved in buying and selling.

I hope we all get $600 and higher again someday soon. American Ginseng is still some of the best ginseng in the world.

The entire process from \"A\" to \"Z\" is not right thou.

The American digger does all the work!
The local buyer takes all the risk for small dollars
The middlemen make all the profit
The end user in China pay's crazy high prices per oz or per lb

I am posting something below and I have no proof of this and this is only my speculation as to what the process may look like. So if you guys want to add to it feel free. But each one listed below is where ginseng would get marked up prior to getting to the end consumer.

THE PROCESS FROM \"A\" TO \"Z\"
I suspect this is something like what goes on below and each time the price gets marked up for storage, shipping and for each transactions.

Digger sells his ginseng.
Local buyer buys his ginseng.
Local buyer sells to a larger US buyer.
Larger buyer sells to large broker/exporter.
Ginseng is stored in American warehouse(s).
Larger broker sells to large Asian buyer.
Larger broker/exporter ships ginseng to Hong Kong.
Ginseng is stored in Hong Kong.
Large Asian buyer sells to large Asian Wholesalers.
Large Asian Wholesalers sells to smaller Asian wholesalers.
Smaller Asian wholesalers sell to retailers.
Retailers sell to China consumer.

This example may show too many steps involved. Or perhaps it is only the tip of the iceberg and may lack some of the process. Does anyone really know? if so please explain it to me. I would like to know.
Thanks,
Latt

mutt33 wrote:

if a buyer buys poor quality sain that is not the diggers fault, the blame cant be placed on him. the blame should be placed on the one who buys poor quality, if they wouldnt buy it people wouldnt waste their time by digging poor quality. as with any trade there will always be an excuse that keeps prices down especially for the low man that does all the work. but on the other hand middle men take chances too usually the more costly chances. now as to the quality being different from state to state that is a load of bs. i could lay out sain from the same mountain and each piece is a tad bit different but if i layed sain out from different states nobody could tell me which state it came from. southern sain does have a bit longer season usually and hence forth more berry production so more sain but it looks smells tastes and is the same as vermont sain there just seems to be more of it. but there is no need in any of us talking bad about each other it is what it is and will be what it will be. by the way hope everybody had a great thanksgiving, i think i ate a bit too much, lol

Hey Mutt, I can appreciate where you are coming from. But, shifting blame isn't a good way to look at anything and get an accurate perspective. The digger -you and I- are the ones who decide to dig small roots or not. We make the choice to not spend the effort to be careful in digging or handling of the roots we dig which in turn leads to poor quality lots. As a buyer, I can't buy something for more than I can sell it for or I go out of business. However, I try to pay as much as I can to try to keep you coming back as a digger so that when you start bringing me good stuff we can both make money on it. This might mean I'm paying you as much as I think I can get for the ginseng you bring me.

A second point I'd like to make, is that the local dealer not only is taking a huge risk, but there is a lot of work that goes into handling ginseng too. Between my job and school, I only normally get one night off a week. Guess what...I\"ve only had one night off since the ginseng season started because of a cancellation. I work nights, and most days my phone starts ringing at 8 or 9am after I've finally gotten to sleep. On top of that, put the stress of dealing with diggers who think their stuff is worth more than you do (which to them obviously means you are a crook and that is what they tell everyone), and upstream dealers who think it is worth even less than you do, and other dealers who keep trying to run the price up on nothing other than speculation to make more money on the stuff they bought cheap. I seriously wonder if this part of the ginseng business is really worth it in years like this one.

Let me say this,just about everyone in ky. has kinfolk or freinds that live in ohio or indiana.Do like i done send your seng to them and let them sell it.the buyer told my cousin it was some of the best he had seen all year.I know this goes aginst the rules but you got do what you got to do.Now tell me why it is so much higher in ohio.

mutt33, It's next to impossible to inspect all the ginseng but as the saying goes one bad apple ruins the whole barrel.

Castle, I wonder too if the dealer end is worth the headaches. I'm really contemplating on just digging and selling my own seng.

rootman

blackcat that is not against the rules as long as you have the ginseng certified first.

Also you said ( the buyer told my cousin it was some of the best he had seen all year.Now tell me why it is so much higher in ohio )

The only reason i have determined as to why is exactly what i was talking about in my first post to this topic.

blackcat wrote:

Let me say this,just about everyone in ky. has kinfolk or freinds that live in ohio or indiana.Do like i done send your seng to them and let them sell it.the buyer told my cousin it was some of the best he had seen all year.I know this goes aginst the rules but you got do what you got to do.Now tell me why it is so much higher in ohio.

I think you also have to factor in local competition too. I'm here to tell you, I think there are more buyers in this state that would rather cut my throat as to work with me because they see me as competition.

Another thing, from my perspective, ginseng is marketed by state, not just a hodgepodge of whatever hits the barrel.

Latt wrote:

Great post fellas!!!

THE PROCESS FROM \"A\" TO \"Z\"
I suspect this is something like what goes on below and each time the price gets marked up for storage, shipping and for each transactions.

Digger sells his ginseng.
Local buyer buys his ginseng.
Local buyer sells to a larger US buyer.
Larger buyer sells to large broker/exporter.
Ginseng is stored in American warehouse(s).
Larger broker sells to large Asian buyer.
Larger broker/exporter ships ginseng to Hong Kong.
Ginseng is stored in Hong Kong.
Large Asian buyer sells to large Asian Wholesalers.
Large Asian Wholesalers sells to smaller Asian wholesalers.
Smaller Asian wholesalers sell to retailers.
Retailers sell to China consumer.

This example may show too many steps involved. Or perhaps it is only the tip of the iceberg and may lack some of the process. Does anyone really know? if so please explain it to me. I would like to know.
Thanks,
Latt

There's certainly too many middle man. When the roots reach hong kong, that's where they are graded and then auction off. This auction seems to be open only to ginseng guild members. Even Paul Hsu mentioned in his writing/interviews somewhere that he had no access to the process of the hk market. Hence he had to sell direct...to Taiwan, china. So who gets what, at what price in hk is a mystery to outsiders. We can only guess about this century old practice.

You know, I've dug ginseng for the past 45 to 50 years and have been a dealer for 5 years.

One thing I know for sure. It keeps drying down. A lb. of ginseng sold early in the season even though it is dry will surely shrink another 1/2 ounce or more. So a lot of people that may have sold early may have made more money than people waiting on the price to go up 20 or 30 dollars.


I've seen people really pleased with $400 a lb. and ready to dig more, then some that say they would not waste their time for less than $500. I guess what I'm trying to say is at what price is it worth to the digger. Does he love the woods and enjoy what he is doing or would he rather be doing something else.

Rootman you said ----

I've seen people really pleased with $400 a lb. and ready to dig more, then some that say they would not waste their time for less than $500. I guess what I'm trying to say is at what price is it worth to the digger. Does he love the woods and enjoy what he is doing or would he rather be doing something else.

---

Well said in my opinion.

I had stated once before that their has only been 2 years when dry ginseng actualy did what us diggers would love for it to do every season and that is reach very good prices.

The truth is my uncle rejoyced to see $450:00 and many years saw $350 or less and at 450 was very happy also my grandfather saw $250:00 and was very happy to see $350:00 one time he saw $450:00 and rejoyced as we did at $750:00.....

In the past 10 years add the top selling price for each year together then divide it by 10 years and you will see that ginseng has not sold for $600:00 a year never,also if it wasent for the 2 outstanding years it would not be close to $525:00

I want the American people to make more than any one else does on ginseng and I think that our ginseng is worth $600:00 a pound every season for wild ginseng hands down,but we are trying to force the issue and it is not going to work,do you think that a international buyer is going to worry if a digger holds his near nothing 7,10,15 pounds over and does not sale ? No for every one that holds 10 pounds a 100 pound lot was bought that same day,and they will still move tons of ginseng...

It is in the Asian market friends,not the local dealer,or even the international dealer he will gladly pay me more when he can,and i will gladly pay myself more,and my diggers more when i can.....To me the profit should be more in our favor,always...,but i nor they control that.

The only reason that I have got involved in this thread is to try and show my friends here this is the truth of it,because it is.

Billy.



rootman wrote:

You know, I've dug ginseng for the past 45 to 50 years and have been a dealer for 5 years.

One thing I know for sure. It keeps drying down. A lb. of ginseng sold early in the season even though it is dry will surely shrink another 1/2 ounce or more. So a lot of people that may have sold early may have made more money than people waiting on the price to go up 20 or 30 dollars.


I've seen people really pleased with $400 a lb. and ready to dig more, then some that say they would not waste their time for less than $500. I guess what I'm trying to say is at what price is it worth to the digger. Does he love the woods and enjoy what he is doing or would he rather be doing something else.