TOPIC: Berries keep going

K-Duce,
Thanks for your thoughts. It is a real important thing to me to try to turn this problem around.
Getting away from that. I was looking at that beautiful picture that you posted and I'm wondering if that was made this season or in the Fall of another year? I'm still curious about early ripening strains of ginseng. I understand that most of yours is wild.

Hugh

Hugh,
I took that picture a couple of days ago, I believe that plant to be about 25-30 yrs old at least. About 15 yrs ago I dug a plant close to it that was about 50 yrs old. looking back i wish i hadn't of dug it. Where i live, wild ginseng only starts producing seed heads like that at around 15 to 20 years, i think that having plants like that to produce alot of seed is the only way to keep ginseng at sustainable levels naturally, the only other alternative would be to plant lots of cultivated or woods-grown seed every year to compensate for those big seed heads. i have been stewarding plants like that on my property trying to keep them from disappearing and like you picking the berries and then topping them for the year. I actually am having better results stewarding the existing ginseng than i have buying and planting seed. If i had kept better (any) records when i started planting i may have been able to help you out in the seed department but all i know for sure is i have about 4 different types of ginseng, judging by the seed head height, color of leaves and amount of purple in the stems. i know that i have some wisconsin seed, some canadian seed. and some kentucky seed and some tennessee wild. I also think that ginseng in warmer drier areas with more light tend to ripen faster than ginseng that may grow lower on the hillside in the cooler, darker damper regions. But the quality seed come from the latter.

Excellent Hugh the berries are doing well and you are a oak my friend.

Brad I think highly of you and understand what you mean and know that you are reminding us of nature and the deer and animals no doubt cause us loss. I wanted to say this to you so that you would know that I mean no disrespect to your comment my friend.

I have had poaching on my mind strong and I now that their are friends on here that understand me.

I believe that God took into consideration natural loss of plants to the other animals and acts of nature. However ginseng thrived with the animals all down through the generations until now.

However since the poachers have got so brutal digging before the pods even form in the tops it has got to where if you are not a very skilled hunter like me and many of our brothers on this site that you have no hope of doing well in the wild.

A while back some one told me that I should not be hurt at poachers because they may be poaching to feed their family's. I thought about that for days, every single day. Then I came to a conclusion. Most all states have food stamps and welfare. If a man is with a job and in so bad of shape that he can not live then he can sign up and draw them to get by. I am not saying that a man should not work he should, but if he is down on his luck I mean. I have been a hard and diligent worker and firmly believe in working, but if something happened and I fell on hard times I am not a bit above asking for help if I truly need it.

But their is Black Cohosh, Blue Cohosh, Goldenseal, Blood root, Wild yam, Queen of the meadow, Heart leaf, Star grub, and many more roots, herbs, barks etc. They can dig them before ginseng season and survive. It is not because they can not make it. It is because of this. GREED 100 o/o Greed.

Poachers are greedy and they do not respect no one not their neighbors not their own young children or their grandchildren because of their greed. They do not care to go into the National Parks, into your back yard or any where else no where is off limits to them at all.

Most of the time I just do not even talk about it. I try to keep myself and be quite, but lately I am really sick of Poaching. Dealers buying out of season. People trading drugs for ginseng. The poaching diggers them selves getting a 3rd of what they could get if they would only wait and dig in season. It is insanity.

Some One Some Authority needs to do something about it and wake up out of their sleep. They are slumbering and folding their hands together to sleep and complaining that the ginseng population is vastly decreasing ? Really ? well lets do something about it SERIOUSLY You can call the authorities and people over the ginseng and nothing is done.

I see no effort being made at all. You can tell them who is doing the poaching, where they are doing it at, who they are selling it to and nothing. Just that the word is being passed along. My God the ginseng will be destroyed before the word is passed to where ever it needs to be passed to. Graney gear is letting the wild ginseng be annihilated. What can we do ? Who can help ? I can not help because I am not herd or at least I am not herd by some one who can do something their hands are tied as mine are because I know that they care so I do not know who to confer with about it.


Latt instead of a reality show I wish they would actually and truthfully do just that. Get some one who has the guts and the back bone to actually put a stop to foolishness and I would join you and them and go into the woods and through their front doors if we had the authority to put a stop to it, but they will not do it or enforce it for someone else to do it.



Their will soon be nothing left to dig at the rate that things are going.



Billy.

Hugh, I always take stratified seeds with me when I go senging, and try to plant an ounce or so each time. I know some will be found and some places I will probably never make it back to, but if we would all do this it would have to help the ginseng population. I appreciate you planting your berries out there, it is a really good thing.

Hey Billy,

Thank you for the kind words. I completely understand where you are coming from. I do not mean to shrug off the poacher problem either, if it sounded that way I'm sorry. I guess the biggest issue with poachers to me is that this is a loss which can and should be avoided. I guess if I could just ignore wrong doing, I wouldn't be a cop.

I see poachers as I do any other thief. Plain and simple. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on the circumstances), that is also how the courts see them. This brings in all of the civil rights and protections our system has to offer those accused of crimes. So, as law enforcement we have to cross the Ts and dot the Is in order to hope a prosecutor (who might not even care about ginseng in the first place) will take the case.

I really don't think law enforcement is sitting on their hands, I think their hands are tied by the system. I wish I had a dollar bill for every time someone came up to me and wanted me to 'do something' about their neighbor yelling at then or something similar. If I don't go up to the house and act sternly to the resident, I did nothing in the eyes of the complainant. However, as I explained as recently as this evening, I can't arrest someone because you said I should. Otherwise, I'll be over to your house next to arrest you because they said I should.

So, the problem getting poacher/ginseng thieves prosecuted is most often the lack of probable cause. I have to be able to prove that a particular person committed a particular crime. How do I prove the ginseng was yours? How do I prove he has it...I need PC before I can get a warrant to search.

Ultimately, the problem is not going away, and the damage is done by the time we even know the problem has come to visit. I hate to say it, but technology is going to be the answer. Someone somewhere will come up with a reasonable way with a reasonable price to gather evidence of ginseng theft from remote locations with technology that exists today.

Until then, I think cutting tops, and getting to know the local law enforcement folks who are charged with enforcing ginseng laws, is the best way to handle the issue. Very small cameras hidden well has produced good results. Unfortunately, the ones currently available do not do a good enough job to gather needed evidence to make a case.

Awesome Hugh! Sorry for your poacher trouble. I'm not clear, are these guys poaching on your property, or a place you have permission to dig?

MAYA,
The poachers are a problem any where you go. My biggest concern is the Cherokee National Forest. That is the prime place that anyone can hunt if they can get a permit. I plant on land from the Smokies to private land. Poaching goes on, on all of it. We are facing the possibility of losing the Cherokee National Forest to public hunting all together. The powers that be can close it at any time if they feel the ginseng population is too low to sustain itself. It's pretty obvious that it's already too low if I can scout a county and not find one wild ginseng plant. That was a few weeks ago. Now there are potentially hundreds of new babies to be born this coming Spring. I'll try to keep adding.

Hugh

Hey guys great topic. I agree, it is both the combination of poachers and deer. I agree Billy that ginseng produces enough seed to sustain what God intended in a balanced natural habitat. However, as we all know the growing deer population is a huge imbalance in nature. 100 years ago the white tail deer was a rarity. Now there are an estimated 20 million deer across the US.

BCastle, I think you are dead on unfortunately pertaining to deer decimating the wild ginseng population.

Face it, we plant millions upon millions of acres of corn, soy etc and have given deer the opportunity to dine at will. Increased food supply means an increase in deer population. Being opportunist, millions of deer not only dine on farm crops, they are in the woods devastating native plants like ginseng.

\"A hundred years ago deer were nearly extinct in Maryland and extremely rare in Virginia. Newly minted state game departments rushed to the rescue, banning or regulating hunting and setting up parks.

They went and got deer from Arkansas and brought them here to repopulate that area. So growing the deer population was intentional. Its a conservation story and it went just like they planned. And now the flipside has happened.\"

\"Back in 1990, scientists with the Smithsonians Conservation Biology Institute in Front Royal, Virginia closed off about 10 acres behind an eight-foot tall wire fence. Its called an exclosure. Its a world without deer and it doesnt really exist anymore anywhere else.

After 24 years the deer side of the fence has a carpet of grass, a shrubby looking thing, and some large trees - things that are either too big for deer to eat, or are among the very few plants they dont like to eat. Inside it is practically a jungle. Dozens of different almost exotic looking plants are tumbling over one another. Many of them are young trees.

In there, they saw white ash and hickory and red maples and service berry. Were looking at 20, 30 species. If you look out there, its a much simpler world. \"

I agree with you Billy that wild ginseng may soon be a rare find. Poachers are one of two primary reasons for the continued decline in wild ginseng population

Hats off to you Hugh for trying to repopulate wild seed in the wild and all the rest of you that are doing some seed planting when hunting.

K_Duce hats off to you as well for stewarding wild seng.

I think we need to RAISE the limit on deer harvest and lengthen the hunting season.

Perhaps we should do the same on poachers.

Latt

Thank you my friend for this detailed insight into the PB on this situation. I learned from what you wrote here and it gives me a couple of ideas as well.

Billy.BCastle wrote:

Hey Billy,

Thank you for the kind words. I completely understand where you are coming from. I do not mean to shrug off the poacher problem either, if it sounded that way I'm sorry. I guess the biggest issue with poachers to me is that this is a loss which can and should be avoided. I guess if I could just ignore wrong doing, I wouldn't be a cop.

I see poachers as I do any other thief. Plain and simple. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on the circumstances), that is also how the courts see them. This brings in all of the civil rights and protections our system has to offer those accused of crimes. So, as law enforcement we have to cross the Ts and dot the Is in order to hope a prosecutor (who might not even care about ginseng in the first place) will take the case.

I really don't think law enforcement is sitting on their hands, I think their hands are tied by the system. I wish I had a dollar bill for every time someone came up to me and wanted me to 'do something' about their neighbor yelling at then or something similar. If I don't go up to the house and act sternly to the resident, I did nothing in the eyes of the complainant. However, as I explained as recently as this evening, I can't arrest someone because you said I should. Otherwise, I'll be over to your house next to arrest you because they said I should.

So, the problem getting poacher/ginseng thieves prosecuted is most often the lack of probable cause. I have to be able to prove that a particular person committed a particular crime. How do I prove the ginseng was yours? How do I prove he has it...I need PC before I can get a warrant to search.

Ultimately, the problem is not going away, and the damage is done by the time we even know the problem has come to visit. I hate to say it, but technology is going to be the answer. Someone somewhere will come up with a reasonable way with a reasonable price to gather evidence of ginseng theft from remote locations with technology that exists today.

Until then, I think cutting tops, and getting to know the local law enforcement folks who are charged with enforcing ginseng laws, is the best way to handle the issue. Very small cameras hidden well has produced good results. Unfortunately, the ones currently available do not do a good enough job to gather needed evidence to make a case.

I am like Lenno and K-duce I've been stewarding ginseng over 20 years and have learned more from trial and error than books I've read.

I still say that if you take away the sale of dried ginseng and dealers can only buy fresh green roots this will really help the poaching situation and take away the early illegal digging that occurs.
Think about it. take away the sale of illegal dry roots and you take away the early digging.