TOPIC: differences in seeds?

both the germination tests I did prior to planting came out with really good results. I bought seed from two different sources.

I'm really really hoping that the lack of consistant warm weather around my beds is the reason I don't have a whole bunch of three-leafers. Some on this forum have cautioned me that this is a big factor...

However, am interested in learning more about disctinctions from seeds. It seems that the prevailing opinion is that it is of no matter where the seeds originate from, wild, wild-sim, or shade grown. I'm having trouble with this.

To me, the genetics would seem to be the determining factor as to potency and thus value. This would appear to be true in garden seeds, and trees and almost any other plant. Why would this be different with our 'sang?

Just wanting to learn a bit more, not trying to aggrivate anybody...

Latt
I had to dry it and sell it. Did you get your seed?

Hillhopper

Whitjr,
That is the million dollar question. It is kind of like the movie trading places with Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroyd. If you take so called inferior seed (Shade Grown Field Cultivated) and put it in an area that is optimal for growth, will it not perform as well as the so called better quality seed (Wild Simulated).

I had thought that Wild Simulated seed would have better genetics and a better resistance and ability to cope with what mother nature has in store for a seed growing in the wild in the woods. I thought that Shade Grown Field Cultivated seeds that comes from ginseng that is pampered under controlled conditions with sprays to fight off disease, fungus etc would struggle in a wild setting. Therefore I surmised it would be best to invest in Wild Simulated seed and pay the higher price for it.

However, I am not so sure anymore. I have planted Shade Grown Field Cultivated seed and it is doing really great in the woods. I tried a couple pounds and I have plans to try some more.

There are a lot of post on this forum pertaining to this topic. There are a lot of good testimonials as well as thoughts pertaining to Shade Grown Field Cultivated verses Wild Simulated seeds.

Good luck,
Latt

Hillhopper,
They never did send it yet.
Latt

Latt, Thanks for your response.

I'm reading your comments, and I'm reading some of the comments others have posted regarding the same Q that I have....

When I talked to an established grower on the phone, he was of the opinion that there are some buyers that don't care a twit about how it appears, just about potency. However, I find after researching it that appearance and supposed potency are directly related.

However, if commanding the best price for our product requires a wild-grown sort of look, then we want to give the buyers that.... perhaps exclusive of where the seed originated? Hmmm.... here is some of my difficulty.

If I read and understand the newly enacted NC laws [jan, 2011] my state is now requiring letters of certification as to origins of the seed, as well as manner of growing --in order to sell as wild-sim. I think that this new process will pretty much eliminate me from buying seed that is not wild/ wild-sim if I indend to ask for the best price to sell down the road.

However this is aside from the genetics question. It is however another important concern.

Whitjr

I would think since your weather has been in the 70s to low 80s, your seedlings should start popping up all over any day now.

Today I noticed a few of my two and three yr olds just poking up between the leaves. And our weather has been any where from the mid 50s to mid 60s. I would expect some older plants to start emerging soon. My seedlings are usually the last to emerge. I would expect to see some seedlings within a week or two.

Genetics and potency may play a part in the quality of roots. But since buyers to not test our roots for potency, that does not come in to the picture when we sell roots. Thus the value is based on age and characteristics of the root looking wild not cultivated looking. If you were just growing the roots for your own consumption, then I suppose you would grow roots with a high potency. And the potency would be hard to tell without sending it to a lab.

Hope they come up soon!

classicfur

Whitjr

I think your mis-understanding the term Origin of seeds and the manner it it grown. Does it specifically state that the seeds must be from a Wild-Simulated source in order to get the roots certified?

Here in Maine we are required to give the origin of seeds in order to get our roots certified. I.e. Name and address of seed supplier. It does not matter to the state of Maine whether the seeds come from shade cultivated or wild-simulated sources.

If your right about your state regs. Don't buy anything except Wild-simulated seeds.

If that's true. It's a sad situation to be in. Like Hardings website, he says his seeds are Wild-simulated. But if his seeds are comeing from the woods grown plants shown in the photos on his page. They are woods-cultivated seeds not wild-simulated.

So who know what is truely wild-simulated seeds.

classicfur

Wild seed vs cultivated seed.
This reminds me of the \"heritige\" seeds vs the modern seeds. Suppliers of heritige seed have apples to zucchini's seed that produce excellent fruit better tasting and better for you than the modern bland stuff. Find an old apple tree on an old estate and taste the difference.
You know now, some crop seed will only grow once, so ya can't save the seasons surplus for next year, ya have to buy from them again. I'll bet it tastes different than the old style or wild stuff. Try an old breed chicken's egg, look and taste are different and better for you.

Wild Ginseng also is said to contain curative powers absorbed from the forest over many years, but we forget this quality requirement, but the seller over in Japan does not and gets top dollar for your wild. Do you think these guys are stupid and don't know the differents?

guy

Whitjr,

I checked all of my planting beds this past week and all of them (except where I planted the Hardings 1/2 pound of seed) were up and looking real good. 3-leafers everywhere.

But then in the beds where I planted the Hardings seeds in a 200-250 sf bed there were only like 20-30 seedlings up where I planted 1000-1200 seeds.

In the other beds from other seed sources it looked like I had at least 80% germination - in some cases even higher than that.

I can't imagine the Hardings seeds just being later than the seeds from other sources. I will be suprised if that is the case.

I did scratch around in one of the hardings beds and found 4 seeds and they were not diseased or rotting - but instead were still solid and white inside. They were not cracked or smiling and no tails started either. They just looked like they were going to wait another year before coming up.

The bag of seed I got from Hardings looked good, smelled good, float tested good and just a few had 1/4\" tails and just a very few did sprout this year.

The rest are remaining dormant for some reason.

Hope they make it another year and sprout next spring.

I will of course check on those beds again over the next few weeks and will let you all know if any more of them appear to be sprouting up this spring. I sort of doubt that will happen since all of the other beds (other seed sources) are up good and thick at this point and our wild seng has been up for 2-3 weeks at this point.

TNhunter

Thanks, guys, the conversation here is useful and helpful.

Guy,
That is a good point and is what I had always thought as well.
I guess the question is if a Shade Grown field cultivated seed is planted in the forest, will it absorb the nutrients over the years from the soil. Will the seed have enough genetic memory and footprint to produce a root that contains the proper level of Saponin or Ginsenosides to make that root valuable.

Correct me if I am wrong but I have never seen a ginseng dealer test for Saponin or Ginsenosides levels when you bring them the roots. The ginseng buyer looks at the roots and pays top dollar for presumably wild ginseng root based on appearance alone.

I know that there are over a hundred levels of grading ginseng based on appearance by the end buyer overseas. And yes I know and know that Saponin or Ginsenosides are extremely important.

95% of what I have planted is seed from Wild Simulated Growers (Supposedly) and I have paid top dollar for the seed.

However, I am still uncertain as to what the Saponin or Ginsenosides levels of a Shade grown Field Cultivated ginseng seed will be if grown in rich woodland soil over many years.

I agree as well with you on the heritage seeds verses modern seeds example.

So these are questions I would really like to hear answered if anyone has any information.
Thanks,
Latt

Tnhunter,
What you are describing is exactly what is going on with the seed that I bought late. The inside appears nice and white and firm, no sign of disease and float tested well, but has not germinated past 10% total yet.